Eon Grundrustning house rules

Hi,

Its me again, the annoying English speaking guy (actually I am Spanish).

My game is appointed for Sunday 25th of February. We are all very excited.

I wanted to hear some opinions from all the Eon veterans (or non veterans as well) about Grundrustning. Normally, systems that use damage soak based on attributes are a red flag for me. I typically don't like such mechanic. I don't think it is a bad one, it just does not match my game philosophy.

I think if I would like to run a game more "pulp" or more "epic", damage soak based on attributes is a good thing. Then you can have your "tank" that can be stabbed with a dagger endlessly and do not feel a sting. But I am looking for a more "dirty", "down to earth game", where no matter your "toughness", or in Eon your Grundrustning, you are going to be scared if any run-of-the-mill wrongdoer tries to stab you in a dark alley.

In Eon IV, a player character can have anything between 0 and 8 of Grundrustning. So, I was thinking to limit Grundrustning for most human-like races and for all player characters down to 4. So, what do you think about that limit? Am I going to find some issues later one if I enforce this limit?

I take the opportunity to quote Zeedox from another post, where he already gives an opinion on the topic.

Zeedox said:

I generally skip the base armor when making my own characters, to avoid a little bit of math, and because I think the advanced damage tables are cool, so I’d rather have an effect there more often. It’s not too bad so don’t worry about house ruling it!

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Thx

I find that in a fight with an armed opponent, grundrustning doesn't really do much difference. Nobody in Eon is a tank who can take stabbings if they don't actually wear armor.

I mean, if you get stabbed by a sword, even by someone who isn't a strong fighter, that does something like 3t6 or 4t6. Sure, if they roll an extremely unlucky only 1s, it will be soaked by grundrustning.

Caveat: never played a character with high grundrustning. Human characters tend to have around 2 on average, right? So your suggested house rule might not ever be relevant.

So... do what you want. Zeedox suggested ignoring grundrustning all together, which has the advantage of removing some maths from combat. Maybe try that? Or that it only comes into play with damage dealt by unarmed opponents, unlucky falls and such, while being ignored when attacked with weapons?

I think "grundrustning" is a thing that actually lowered the mortality rate from Eon 3, together with the new damage system.

As a GM I don't see grundrustning as a problem. Heavy armor on the other hand, that can be a problem. When total armor totals to more than 10, things get hard to kill. Over 20 is really hard to kill, without using "advantage" to slip through the cracks in the armor.

I think you should keep grundrustning and instead limit the kind of armor the players could buy/get at the start.

Thalaski said:

I think "grundrustning" is a thing that actually lowered the mortality rate from Eon 3, together with the new damage system.

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Not having as much blood loss and death saves also helps. (Tänker på gamla Trauma-skadad och Blödningstakt)

Thalaski said:

I think "grundrustning" is a thing that actually lowered the mortality rate from Eon 3, together with the new damage system.

As a GM I don't see grundrustning as a problem. Heavy armor on the other hand, that can be a problem. When total armor totals to more than 10, things get hard to kill. Over 20 is really hard to kill, without using "advantage" to slip through the cracks in the armor.

I think you should keep grundrustning and instead limit the kind of armor the players could buy/get at the start.

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Thx, I understand what you mean, but have in mind that I am not debating between a more lethal or less lethal game.

Precisely, I want a game where armor is the main source of protection, where wearing a gambeson and a chain mail is what keeps you alive; where people with heavy plate armour is very difficult to kill unless you have a freaking pollaxe, a war horse, or you fatigue them so you can grapple them in very close quarters and stab them with a dagger through the armour gaps. It is a bit more this "realistic" feeling what I am looking for in an rpg.

So I don't care if a full plate harness gives you 20 armour points, but it does bothers me that a human may have a "natural" protection of 8, which nearly as much as a Chain mail (against slash damage).

Zeedox said:

Not having as much blood loss and death saves also helps. (Tänker på gamla Trauma-skadad och Blödningstakt)

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I have to say that after reading Eon I very quickly, its damage system was a bit nightmarish in terms of book keeping. I like the changes implemented in Eon IV in terms of injury system. Not so much on the basic armour (grundrustning ) thing

Yahuna said:

…but it does bothers me that a human may have a "natural" protection of 8, which nearly as much as a Chain mail (against slash damage).

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Note that values like 1-4 are much more common values. 7 would be the biggest baddest tirak (Eon name for orcs) you could find. 8 grundrustning would be almost a supernaturally high damage resistance, requiring 6 Strength + 6 Endurance.

Now, I personally think that it’s easier and more fun to do without (and honestly, most monsters have too high armor for my tastes as well…), just wanted to clarify that most RPs, even minmaxed, won’t have a very high base armor.

Grundrustning is Toughness. Most Big guys can take more hits than small guys, I don't see the the problem.. Grundrustning is also balanced against Brytrisk/Amputationsrisk if you start changing parts of the system be vary for what happens. But Humans basicly gos from 0-6 in the rules now so a cap at 4 basically makes no difference

Grundrustning 8 means that the biggest guy you’ve ever seen can take a hit from a sword almost as well as a really weedy guy (grundrustning 0 requires quite low stats) in maille. I don’t really see it as a big problem – it allows exceptional people to be exceptional, while most people won’t end up in that category. And if you go into battle with no armour, it’ll be bad for you even if you’re that beefy. For heavy armour, that’s why you have maces and war picks.

Svarte Faraonen said:

Grundrustning 8 means that the biggest guy you’ve ever seen can take a hit from a sword almost as well as a really weedy guy (grundrustning 0 requires quite low stats) in maille. I don’t really see it as a big problem – it allows exceptional people to be exceptional, while most people won’t end up in that category. And if you go into battle with no armour, it’ll be bad for you even if you’re that beefy. For heavy armour, that’s why you have maces and war picks.

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Do you mean Halberds? No maces have Genomslag as far as I know.

Svarte Faraonen said:

Grundrustning 8 means that the biggest guy you’ve ever seen can take a hit from a sword almost as well as a really weedy guy (grundrustning 0 requires quite low stats) in maille. I don’t really see it as a big problem – it allows exceptional people to be exceptional, while most people won’t end up in that category. And if you go into battle with no armour, it’ll be bad for you even if you’re that beefy. For heavy armour, that’s why you have maces and war picks.

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I understand that, and I think it is great for certain play styles. It just does not match my game style, I do look for a bit more of "realism". The biggest guy I am ever going to see, not matter what, is going to have his arm chopped by a sword unless he is wearing mail. This is more "real", which I am not saying is a good style for a game, but is what I want.

Yahuna said:

I understand that, and I think it is great for certain play styles. It just does not match my game style, I do look for a bit more of "realism". The biggest guy I am ever going to see, not matter what, is going to have his arm chopped by a sword unless he is wearing mail. This is more "real", which I am not saying is a good style for a game, but is what I want.

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The thing is, that factor has already been calculated into the damage dealt – that's why grundskada is higher in Eon IV than in earlier versions, in order to make sure that doesn't happen.

If you don't want to use Grundrustning for people and it averages at 4, then you could just lower Grundskada by 1T6 and it sort of evens out. This does however become a bit problematic if you intend to use Grundrustning for animals though, unless you add the 1T6 Grundskada back vs animals, or lower their Grundrustning by 4.

Honestly you can also just keep the rules for base damage and ignore base armor. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, I already do it for my own PCs. Rolling extra damage is more fun!