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KULT - Divinity Lost

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    #76
    Ursprungligen skrivet av wilper Visa inlägg
    Har de lyckats förklara hur man spelar rälsade tradäventyr med en karaktärsdriven regelmotor?
    På vilket sätt är AW:s regelmotor "karaktärsdriven"? Asså, spelet är ju absolut det, och om man tar hela konceptet så kan det ju inte köras med färdigskrivna äventyr, men regelmotorn är väl mest "Slå 2T6 och läs från en lista"? Går väl utmärkt att kombinera med rälsade äventyr. Se till exempel Dungeon World (som jag aldrig läst eller spelat, så jag kan dra ett helt galet exempel här).

    Kommentera


      #77
      Förresten, varför finns det inget Kult-forum i Helmgast-sektionen?

      Kommentera


        #78
        Jag tycker det är jäkligt märkligt att backers förväntas veta att lägga på X antal månader/år på "estimated delivery" medan företagen som sätter nämnda datum inte förväntas göra det. Det är nästan som om företagen medvetet skjuter lågt och att alla som kacklar om "KS är faktist inte förhandsköp" är deras nyttiga idioter. Det är jättebra att det klagas och diskuteras spruckna tidsplaner, annars är det ju omöjligt som konsument/backer att veta vad man kan förvänta sig.

        Kommentera


          #79
          Jag har bara läst mytosdelen och efter det hade jag mardrömmar om kult i två nätter, vilket jag antar, säger något gott om spelet.

          Med det sagt tycker jag mytosdelen var mycket tydligare och begripligare än i orginalet där en del inte hängde ihop.

          Kommentera


            #80
            Ursprungligen skrivet av Grisodlar'n Visa inlägg


            Så du tror att det rör sig om en enda negativ kommentar bara för att jag klistrade in ett exempel? Jaja. Men va fan, vi kan väl ta ditt eget sad face som exempel då hur det kan se ut:
            Big Marco:

            "Kickstarter-linjens CRB:s kommer aldrig att finnas i butiksled."

            Du:
            :(
            Nej, jag trodde att den där "andra bilden" som du talade om var något som kanske kunde vara intressant. Men så verkar inte vara fallet. Min kommentar bör inte ses i det ljuset. Jag hade hellre kunnat köpa Helmgasts orginalvision, men det är inte något större grej för mig. Isf hade jag backat. Kult gick lite förbi när det begav sig mig och jag blev inte helsåld på kickstarten. Men det är absolut inte någon kritik mot Helmgast eller Kult. Bara en personlig preferens. Så helt ärligt, om det enda du kan presentera är en knappt begriplig folie hatt-kommentar och min som är tagen ur sitt sammanhang så verkar du inte ha mycket av ett case.

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              #81
              Ursprungligen skrivet av Måns Visa inlägg

              Så helt ärligt, om det enda du kan presentera är en knappt begriplig folie hatt-kommentar och min som är tagen ur sitt sammanhang så verkar du inte ha mycket av ett case.
              Här har du:

              Christopher Allen June 7: Last week they said that we *might* see a little movement on PDF delivery as early as *this* week, but I've seen instances where they considered 12 days to be within their "one week" timeframe. So That's more a very *rough* guideline, than a deadline.

              Franco Martinengo May 25: Alex are you kidding us or else? To match your points:
              1) I can easily make up a new archetype in less than a hour work with friends, admittedly it is not perfect or reader proof, but cannot believe their team needs more than one day.
              2)The black Madonna is as new a my grandad bones, it was released for the 1st edition of Kult, but not translated in english (afaik).
              3)Same thing for the rest, they are not creating a new game, but adapting the old one to a new (imho awfully horrible!) set of rules and revising it.

              Now if you are happy waiting forever, that's fine for you: add one year for every comma changed in the book, plus one century any of you petulant adorers of delay, and the books will not be delivered before the End Of Time!

              Stephen Mortimer May 22:
              You know what guys, being unhappy that something promised for Dec 2016 is still not delivered in May 2018 is not unreasonable. Yes complaining about it isn't going to make the delivery happen any fast but having a slew of responses that just read "Well it's your fault for backing a project and not a product" and "Complaining isn't going speed it up" is equally as unhelpful and petulant.

              Helmgast have failed to deliver on every single major milestone that they have promised. How else are people supposed to express their frustration and discontent?

              I'm now at the point where I'm just not engaging any further with this company or project, I'm going to wait for the book to be delivered and then not back any further kickstarters from this company, that puts them on the same list as Chaosium for the same reason, if I can't trust that you will deliver on time (or within 3 months of that time) then I am not going to give you anymore money.

              shawn hanson May 17: Is there a formula on how many posts criticising the integrity of this team have to be made before the obligatory fluffy "I backed not amazoned so it's all good, go team go you're the best, I'd rather get quality in a decade than expect anyone to honor their word" post to mix things up?

              Honestly wondering because it seems here (and other projects) that it's almost automated.

              Franco Martinengo May 16: We have been fooled by a bunch of scoundrels and liars who will never, in this timeline, deliver the product so: " I summon you, mighty lord of afterlife, Samael, be our savior and be summoned on this forum, take your revenge on the blood of Helmgast and all backers too!"

              Stephen Mulligan May 14: Meh I've given up now. Any interest or keen I had in the game is gone.

              Matej Gržeta May 13: Personally, I'm just a bit disappointed with all the delays as my experience with the previous KS projects I backed was very positive. I hope the core book gets the priority and the pdf gets out relatively soon.


              Achille Mazzola May 13: another deadline not respected, of course there was no doubt that it happened, all this project was a delay ....

              Laguna May 13: I completely agree with Matej, core book should be the priority now. Look, I've paid a lot of add-on and I want it... but if there are a lot of delays, it's not a bad idea if you finish core book first and the rest of add-on later. A lot of kicstarters do the same when they have delays.




              Matej Gržeta May 13:I really don't understand why you chose to work on all the books at the same time. Source books and adventure books are useless without the core book. Why did you chose not to give the core book the exclusive priority and leave the rest for the later when you saw you couldn't handle the workload?

              Also, many of the updates you were sending were completely impertinent to backers - you've been to a con or two, you promoted the game, which is all good and well, but it means nothing to me as a backer who already paid for the game, is well acquainted with it and only really wants to put his hands on the actual book.

              I have to wonder if you looked at other KS projects and saw how they were handled. For example, Delta Green KS delivered the books in sequence - they chose to deliver the core book first so that everyone can start playing and get to know the game, and chose to publish source books and campaign books over a period of a few years. I think that was a great decision that will keep the game fresh for years. Also, they sent the PDFs as soon as they were ready, and the printed books came later due to the slowness of the printing and shipping processes. Releasing the PDFs and print books at the same time is pointless because why wait.

              Then there was the Unknown Armies 3rd edition KS which delivered the books 3 months before due date. And they did a splendid job. Also, they offer all of the old books (the first two editions) for a meager price in OCR PDF so everyone that missed out on them could have bought them - I would have gladly paid for some of the old Kult books in pdf as they are nearly impossible to find, like 2nd edition core book, but you offered no such option. After that, they continued sending updates promoting similar or related projects that might be of interest to me. Now, that's how you handle a KS project. In contrast, your initial promise was to deliver the books by Christmas, only I can't even remember of which year.

              Gonzalo Hernandez May 13: what happened with the schedule they have, this has to be delivered in December

              Gareth May 11: Year? You’re hopeful. I don’t think we’ll have it before the end of the decade ;-)

              Sébastien Kralik May 11: Guys, it's useless being too excited. We won't receive anything before the end of the year...


              Franco Martinengo May 8: Will you ever deliver the books we paid for?

              Stephen Mortimer May 8: Shockingly Helmgast you have once again failed to deliver what you promised, another deadline missed and we STILL have nothing to show.

              Stephen Mulligan May 8: So no, the books aren't printing. There's no final PDF. And you've missed another deadline.

              Stephen Mulligan May 7: You estimated four weeks. You have had four weeks.

              Have the books gone to the printers?
              Where are the final PDFS?

              @Gon Prados...downloading rewards won't take too long....

              Stephen Mulligan May 5: So books go to the printers this weekend early next week, right? Or do you have another reason for delay?

              Oliver Summers May 4: I was under the impression the uncensored corebook would be available from Modiphius post Kickstarter.

              Thats what was said early into the Kickstarter if i recall correctly.

              Stephen Mulligan April 21: At least seeing the book at the Con proves there IS actually a book which is something I would suspect many of us doubted.

              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter April 19: If the project hadn't been a year and a half overdue, I too would be fine with the demo copies at a con.. however, we are delayed, so here we are.

              shawn hanson April 19: Lol I'll take the printed and bound demo copy instead of my metropolis edition at this point as long as it contains all the pages from the 3 preview PDFs. I'm serious.

              Skelion April 18: Totally insulting, I hate it when a Company does this. With out our money there wouldn't be a book or all the extras. So okay, the Book is late but that's near normal, but to give the Book in other Hands before we get it, is really a bad styl. That's a Company that I would not Support again.

              Stephen Mortimer April 18: I agree Geir, it is frankly insulting.

              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter April 18: A bit sad to see physical beta books available at a con before we backers have seen anything physical...

              Stephen Mortimer April 18: Hang on. You STILL haven't sent anything to print. Really. What are you lot playing at.

              anonymous1453 April 10: So I really hope that any changes can be kept to a minimum and therefore would really appreciate details on what needed to be changed in this great game I've been looking forward to since quite a long time now... TUMBLEWEED

              Stephen Mulligan April 9: @steve Ellis - apparently kickstarter edition is not effected and will be uncensored. It makes no sense whatsoever.


              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter April 8: @Helmgast you could at least try to provide a ship date? Before summer? Before x-mas? Next year? Or has this project moved beyond time and space?


              Franco Martinengo April 7: So when I wrote that this fraud project was two years late, I was indeed optimstic: since there is no hope to get the books before the end of 2018, three years late seem more like.
              Who cares? I am running a campaign with my faithful 1st edition books and stopped caring about this shit!:)

              Merazaander April 7: Really fishy! I don't expect the printed books before the end of the year. I started to worry when Helmgast wasn't embracing the Kult novel Kickstarter by Fria Ligan because Helmgast didn't want to embrace such a thing before their books were released... the Kult novel is due in September!
              And i really wonder what problem there is with 'heavy' artwork? With a kickstarter that successful you shouldn't really care about business partners except printers and logistics. And the printers and shipping companies won't have a problem with artwork...

              Stephen Mulligan April 7: Stephen Mulligan on April 7
              I still find this whole thing with the artwork fishy.

              If it doesn't effect the kickstart package....which they have said it doesn't....

              Then why the delays on the kickstarter fulfillment?

              They are going to have to redo anyway why not fulfill first then redo.

              Like a lot of things on this project, Helmgast have been far from open and honest on what is happening.

              Over promise. Under deliver.

              shawn hanson April 7: Another fluffer update with zero info pertaining to 1) ship date, 2( absolute failure on your end to live up to your timelines and your promise about transparent on time communication (that you "shuffled ppl from other departments to make sure happens on time").

              Nice.

              Dorian Lake April 7: Censorship is the death of art. And no rebirth from this one :(

              Daniel Björkman April 6: However: Rule book. When?

              Stephen Mulligan April 5: @stephen Mortimer I'm hopeful that the update will give us something but I really don't know why.

              And I'm sorry I'm still baffled as to why it took so long for the artwork to be identified as problematic. Surely the sensible thing would have been to be checking this piece by piece over the 16 months they've been working on the books.

              But you know that idea seems logical and good practice so why would Helmgast do that?


              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter April 5: Personally, I have no problem with current artwork.
              But I do have a problem with no delivery date yet. The project was funded 2 years ago...

              Stephen Mortimer April 5: Oh look more excuses and vaguries, do you know what isn't in that comment? Any kind of commitment to delivery dates.

              Stephen Mulligan April 4: Does this conclusion with business partners mean you are *finally* about to release finalised pdfs and start printing the final books?

              Stephen Mulligan April 4: Perhaps a more telling question...

              How come you guys are only checking these potential censorship issues NOW?

              Backers on this project have been more than patient with what has been, frankly, an advertisement for not backing anything on kickstarter again.

              Aranduin April 4: @Laguna is right. December of 2016 is farrr away. And now excuses about our books. Finish our book first and later create your Disney version please.

              shawn hanson April 4: @Laguna hit the nail on the head. What's the real story on the delay to backers and the huge gap of radio silence that you guys swore wouldn't happen again yet keep failing on?

              Francesco Nuzzi April 4: I dont understand too. How many days moths years to have the phisic book??

              Gareth April 4: I have a bad feeling this is never going to see print.

              Laguna April 4: First of all, thanks for commenting here

              I'm sorry, I don't undertand. If I am not wrong with "We intend to develop a new Core Rule Book that is “retail friendly”, with adjustments to artwork and other content deemed “too much”. The Retail Friendly version will be finalized post-delivery of all backers’ orders, to not consume time from finalizing the backer rewards. ", These problems should not affect the date of delivery books for bakers, right? Of course, I Know that the censore is a very big problem and very frustrating inconvenient but I think the priority is the kickstarter due to delays.

              Stephen Mulligan March 29: Update?

              Now the guts of two weeks since last update

              Stephen Mulligan March 18: @helmgast you've said in the update that you're ready to release the final PDFs. Can you give some indication of when this will be?

              Olof March 17: I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Sebastian and Mr. Grohe below. I have to say, it feels like a bit of a bummer that the books have to suffer last-minute censorship this late in the development stage. Even though I can understand the problems with customs, marketing and so on that you guys might suffer, the possibility for us backers to at least get the uncensored PDF:s of The Black Madonna and Taroticum would be very much appreciated.

              Franco Martinengo March 12: When I wrote that we will get the printed books in 2020 (if ever...) you took me for fool! Now my extimate seems simply optimistic, Helmgast is constantly hiding its failures with lies, delivering poorly made pdfs which make me cry for how awful they are. Not only the game is incredibly late, but those ruined a game of wonderful mechanics. Kult was a rpg with a deep and fascinating lore combined with combat mechanics which made most other rpgs pale in comparison, now there is no mechanic for combat at all and the lore has been badly diluted.
              What can happen to wosen these facts?

              Carl Soderberg March 12: So how is the soundtrack coming along? Has the delays of the core book impacted the soundtrack too?

              Stephen Mortimer March 12: I continue to lower my expectations and Helmgast continue to fail to deliver to them. I can't believe that the books haven't even been finalised yet. Once this KS is over I am never backing another one by this company.


              Stephen Mulligan on March 12
              Now over two weeks.... update?

              CJ Superbacker on March 10
              I'll echo someone below in asking - what about the print materials? PDFs are great for some but will those be ready for production this year?

              Stephen Mulligan on February 24
              now two weeks since the last "weekly" update. seriously. is you actually sticking to what you said you'd do too much to ask for @helmgast

              shawn hanson on February 23
              So when's the last time the "we will update and post this weekly" tracker was updated or posted?

              Erik Hall on February 14
              @helmgast Do we have an estimated, stressing estimated here, date when stuff will be sent to print?

              Faie on January 18
              Now that would be nice to hear a sample of some tunes of the music if there is any samples :)


              Blake Hamilton on January 16
              Is there a sample of the music that can be picked up via backerkit? On the fence of picking it up.

              Franco Martinengo on January 14
              Helmgast AB Creator 2 days ago
              @Franco: We feel the frustration and completely understand why. However, let's not exaggerate and keep it to facts at least. The release was set for end 2016 at the outset of this project. We are now just over end 2017, so slightly over a year of delay (which is of course not good in anyway!).

              Are you telling that the game is shipping today, by chance?
              So telling that the whole project is two years late is simply telling the real state of it.
              it would be nice if anyone from Helmgast would estimate the time of delivery, all the rest is only smoke to me.

              Francesco Nuzzi on January 14
              i think that everyone has the right to his opinion. The comments are not "hated" (a hater hate without a reason) but "frustrated" (is very very very different). But thanks for your reminder (your lesson????) about what kickstarter is. We all hope to see the other two beta parts of the core rulebook in a short amount of time. Thank you

              Franco Martinengo on January 11
              Seriously, Erik, do you like getting NOTHING after a delay of two years?
              I can bet my soul that the books will NOT be delivered in 2018.
              Maybe in 2020, if ever: do you like that?

              Franco Martinengo on January 11
              Mark my words: we have been fucked and fucked hard and painfully!
              Those scammers at Helmgast will NEVER release the books!
              They stole our money and are happy with that, only feeding lies to the sheeps willing to believe.

              Derek Mayne Superbacker on January 10
              Hi there - just curious in looking at the progress tracker; I presume the "Bible Edition" requires different layout to the standard edition, is this also as well advanced? If so any chance of a peek at a page or two? Great progress guys. Looking forward to a really special set of books.

              Laguna on January 8
              It's just my opinion but... Do you think is better to deliver the core book instead the other books? I think we should check the core books first. If there are delays in the others is not a big problem. If the other books have some mistakes is not a big problem (of course, it's not good) but if the core books have problems and you have to deliver theses because it's too late it could be catastrophic

              Stephen Mortimer on January 8
              So, are you going to deliver this book any time soon? Or are we going to have another year of excuses and failure to deliver anything?

              Stephen Mulligan on January 7
              @Helmgast

              are we any closer to a release of book ii?

              Francesco Nuzzi on January 4
              Long time doesn't necessary means good work. If After two Years we have only a Little (beta) part of the core rulebook is normal asking questions and be very disappointed about the delay. (I apologize for my AWFUL english)

              Stephen Mulligan on January 3
              @steve Ellis

              At this stage, shouldn't those problems have been sorted already? And if they haven't, questions of what Helmgast have been doing for two years are entirely justified

              Francesco Nuzzi on January 3
              @brian i understand your point and i totally agree with you. Probably the project is grow up too much. After TWO Years we only have a beta version of a third part of the core rulebook......... A sort of copy paste of material already released. Im not Happy and frustrated as Brian

              Skelion on January 2
              I think Brian have a point there, Helmgast should get thinks moving.

              Brian Bjerregaard Bergh on January 2
              Hard to believe this is not an hoax kickstarter at this point.
              My guess is, that they saw all those nice money roll into there account, and decided to start off with a half year vacation.
              Then they got back, having used most of the money, and now there motivation is gone completely (in there mind , they are forced to work for free, we the backers are so evil, for forcing them to do so), and starting full time on there normal job, which is seen before with the crowdfunding concept. Leaving little time for there Kickstarter.

              When they are whining about, that it's ohh so hard and time consuming to write a couple of lines each week for a news update, how will they ever do a whole game with multiple books?

              I really hope Helmgast will begin working, and deliver what they promised. It's going into hoax territory now

              Francesco Nuzzi on December 22
              No offens please. I would know a release date for book two and three . For know (i confirm my opinion) we have (ok not exactly the same) a copy paste of material already released . If for you is ok After two Years for me is not ok! I hope a PDF version of the complete rules in two months

              Francesco Nuzzi on December 21
              "Franco Martinengo on August 1
              Mark my words: this game will nevere see the light of day, at least not as promised; we have all been fooled, and that's all.
              End of December, that would be a lot of delay (and lies...) anyway, but sure as hell Santa will bring a new delay along with promises and fooling around.
              I am into roleplaying since early '80s and never saw a worst company than this one.
              They are only into recicling old material and are bad as shit at it too"

              I want to be respectful but for now im very very sorry . Not for my money but because i believed in this project very much. Alfa rules advantages dark secrets.... Was already released . This First book is ONLY a copy paste of material already released??? I understand the illustrations problems but we expected a COMPLETE TEXT also without illustrations (text and rules are the most important things its a GAME NIT A HORROR BOOK). I also dont understand how is possibile give you good feedback with only a minimum part of the core rulebook. It seems only a system to take time


              Stephen Mulligan on December 20
              To be honest another backer predicted this on August 1st

              Helmgast - over promise, under deliver. A bad reputation to have.

              Carl Soderberg on December 20
              @Helmgast: The problem is that you keep moving your deadlines and making promises you do not keep.

              It may that your art director is at fault this time. But you have to understand that as deadlines keep being postponed (I remember updates this fall stating printed books by December at the latest) my faith in you being able to manage a project is being sorely put to the test.

              Why the Black Madonna, while a great adventure, was prioritized before the core rules is baffling to me.

              All in all, you have much to reflect on before you return with another Kickstarter (Neotech?).

              Francesco Nuzzi on December 20
              Helmgast two Years is a lot of time a LOT LOT OF TIME. I appreciate the refund policy and i understand that phisical book are diffucult to release. But is normale expect now a full PDF version of the book. Is normale being disappointed

              Helmgast AB och THE ART DIRECTOR:

              A clarification: The reason for the delay is that the layout has taken longer than anticipated. The Art Director of the Core Rule Book has been working immensely hard to get this in place for Christmas. Unfortunately, he was not able to deliver on all of it with the quality we require, why we decide to release only Book I at this stage. Book II and Book III are though not blank sheets (as portrayed in some of the comments below). The texts (all available in the KDL Forum) and illustrations are available and the Art Director has worked on these books in parallel. That means that Book II and III is not that far away - but we will not be able to release them before the holidays.

              When we understood that the Art Director will not be able to live up to the deadline, we decided to release Book I now with Book II and III to follow after the holidays. We know this is disappointing, but apart from lowering our standards on the layout (which is not an option to us), there was not much that could be done in this situation.

              Anyone wanting to request a refund should PM us and we will deal with that diligently.



              Stephen Mulligan on December 20
              Why was Black Madonna prioritised over the core rules?

              Stephen Mulligan on December 20
              what is the refund policy? at this stage, I nearly would rather cut my losses and just wait on retail rather than having to deal with Helmgast any more

              Stephen Mulligan on December 20
              I too will not be backing a Helmgast title again. At what stage did you realise that Book II and III would not be ready? Broken promise after broken promise. What is the difference between the Alpha rules and this?

              I cannot wait until the release of this book so I do not have to deal with you again. Unprofessional and in some cases outright lies.

              LIARS!

              Carl Soderberg on December 20
              This will be the last Helmgast title I help fund. Broken deadlines again and again.

              Francesco Nuzzi on December 20
              Two Years for a simple beta version of the First part of the core rulebook 1 part of three. And for the definitive version of all the book ? (I took the core the player handbook the master screen and the tarokka deck) other three or four Years ????

              Francesco Nuzzi on December 20
              The game was succesfully funded in march 2016. Next March It Will be two Years. All this time and we Will receive ONLY a beta PDF version of ONLY the First part of the core rulebook. THE LIE is a perfect title for this update. How many days months or years we Will be for the phisical books? Im very disappointed

              Stephen Mortimer on November 20
              So, decided to check in on this kickstarter after just leaving for most of the year and surprise surprise the delivery date is going to be missed again, taking this kickstarter into the realms of the "Over a year late" club. I'm almost sorry I bothered backing it. It seems I would have been better off just waiting for the commercial release.

              Brian Bjerregaard Bergh on November 16
              These guys need to speed up now, why don't they communicate more when they really needs to?

              Helmgast AB

              @Francesco Nuzzi: Release is still contemplated for late 2017 as announced in August. Hope no update says anything else, if it does, that's a typo.


              Franco Martinengo on August 1
              Mark my words: this game will nevere see the light of day, at least not as promised; we have all been fooled, and that's all.
              End of December, that would be a lot of delay (and lies...) anyway, but sure as hell Santa will bring a new delay along with promises and fooling around.
              I am into roleplaying since early '80s and never saw a worst company than this one.
              They are only into recicling old material and are bad as shit at it too.

              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter on July 31
              @Helmgast: The tone here is quite frustrated of late. Please hurry with a substantial and concrete update.

              Achille Mazzola on July 31
              How I can be refound ?

              Romconstruct on July 31
              @Helmgast:
              I wrote you a Kickstarter PM again and still now reaction after a week. Is there any other way to caontact you in that matter except from facebook?

              @Fabrice Canepa :
              Totally with you on the same page. I was also thinking about keeping my pledge. Just for the possibility to get some great artworks and stories. But in the end I lost more and more faith and 150+ € is a whole lot of money.

              So sadly I decided to ask for the refund.

              Stephen Mortimer on July 31
              So where is this promised update then? Can we have less worthless promises and more actual delivery of the thing we have already paid for. One thing is for sure, I am not ever backing another Helmgast KS Project again.

              Fabrice Canepa on July 27
              @Romconstruct: I know what you feel. Kult is by far my favorite RPG. I have all the French and English versions and was very excited about the visuals hinted at by the project. Nevertheless, I feel that Helmgast's attitude toward its customers bodes ill for the future of the game. Who will commit to a new kickstarter after this disastrous one? Once again, the rulebook will remain an orphan. And we all know that Kult is less about the rules than about the wonderful and terrifying world that it depicts...

              Romconstruct on July 26
              @Fabrice Canepa: Still haven't heard (read) from them except for the comment here which shows that they didn't even fully read/unterstood my comment.

              But thx for your info and we'll see what will happen next...

              I still feel kinda sorry to make this poublic in this way because I really liked the project. But sadly it seems to be the only way except for Facebook. And Facebook as the only way to get a quick(er) answer to me also shows that something is really not right with the communication in this project.

              Stephen Mulligan on July 26
              They have until the end of the month and then I too will be asking for a refund.

              Fabrice Canepa on July 26
              @romconstruct - I have also asked Helmgast fo a refund. We will see if they honour this engagement at least.


              Fabrice Canepa on July 26
              Promising new updates that never really give us the silghtest idea of the project's advancement is NOT a good communication strategy. It is better to be honest with your backers than to add to their rising frustration.
              Considering the amount of money risen by this kickstarter, the translations and adaptations of Black Madonna and Taroticum should have already been completed for a long, long time. I happen to be a translator and know perfectly the time it would take for me to translate these aventures. Nowhere near one year and a half, I can tell you!
              As far as the rulebook is concerned, we should already have a beta version. I have kickstarted several projects that have been delivered for some time now: Mindjammer, Unknown armies the French RPG Crimes, for example, that were all much more ambitious (the rulebook is the only original creation here).
              I am really begining to think we have been swindled.

              Romconstruct on July 23
              I tried to contact Helmgast via private message regarding a refund (reasons: to long development and my possible group disbaned, of course not your fault; lack of communication and losing faith in this project which is your fault; having to move due to another job and thus shipping gets more complicated and so on), as adviced to another backer before, but didn't get even the slightest response in over two weeks.

              So Helmgast: How am I supposed to contact you in regards of this matter with a chance of getting an answer? (PS: I'm not using Facebook)

              I really wanted to believe in this project and invested over 1.500 SEK in it, which is a lot of money for me. But sadly it seems you kinda overestimated a lot here and the lack of communication is getting worse and worse just adding up to a whole bad feeling about this campaign.

              Stephen Mortimer on July 17
              I really wish that Helmgast would post an update with a realistic time scale. Are we getting these books this year? Or is this going to be yet another kickstarter that flat out lied about delivery. Delivering a year late is bad and to be honest, based on their lack of communication I don't see us gettng these books any time soon.

              Just another company to add to my list of 'companies I will not back ever again'.

              Stephen Mulligan on July 16
              @manfred you make a valid point. What really irritates is that we have been down this road a few times with Helmgast and they have promised better communication and better practice. You would think the complaints in this page would have prompted SOME response.

              Just to put it out there - they have signed a deal with Mophidius. The books WILL be available in retail.


              Manfred Lill on July 16
              As long as nobody asks for his or her money back because of non-fulfilment, Helmgast has no real reason - besides customer-friendliness and honesty (that's me starting to be sarcastic) - to change their current modus operandi. Money's been paid, and in theory they could keep on developing for ever. Unless they violate the KS regulations. But unless somebody really switches complaints against hard consequences, why should they bother? But to be honest, even though I'm pissed because of Helmgast's bad practice, I'm not going to pull out of this KS. I want the book so badly and will rather wait and complain until the veil has broken down for real than miss on on the opportunity ro witness it. Bit maybe waiting for the Core Rules IS what's going to let the veil break down.

              shawn hanson on July 16
              This is beginning to look like the Wraith the Oblivion 20th anniversary Kickstarter...too much radio silence.


              Daniel Björkman on July 14
              I have to agree that this radio silence is unnerving. Raising 2.8 million SEK for a reprint of a truly
              unique RPG entails some kind of acknowledgement that this is indeed a serious undertaking. While I don't believe that there's any bad faith behind the KS, when you're seven months behind schedule with basically nothing to show, it's time for some communication.

              Franco Martinengo on July 11
              the only thing Helmgast can really do as for now, would the option to get money back, since the game is not coming out.
              Sadly I doubt they are honest people, so it's not going to happen.

              Stephen Mulligan on July 10
              Agree totally with everything that João Mariano said. I regret passing on Unknown Armies to back this.

              João Mariano on July 10
              @Helmgast - A Request for Better Practices

              As of late being a backer of this project has been a bit frustrating as we've been promised a lot of material that hasn't materialized on the proposed schedule time and time again and what is given seems to be well-behind the expected development (one unedited quickstart, three unedited chapters of Black Madonna, and a really barebones forum).

              So what are your suggestions for what Helmgast could do as of right now that could benefit the project on the whole and insure trust and productive enthusiasm? Here are mine:

              - Come clear with present state of the product (Is it still being translated? Is it in editing? Being layed out? How much is completed?);
              - Make frequent updates with more solid information being given which includes schedules and previews;
              - Give some feedback on all the suggestions and comments that some backers have already made in the beta documents of Black Madonna (and a way back on even the quickstart itself);
              - Make the core rulebook available (and all finished manuscripts) as a beta version that the backers could comment on so that all this wait is in fact productive to make it a better product in the end.

              P.S.: Maybe I'm being a impatient and judgemental but as a backer of one of Fria Ligan's (the swedish RPG publisher behind the Mutant line, Coriolis and Tales from the Loop) crowdfunding projects I guess there is a precedent for swedish companies that don't usually miss deadlines and establish dynamic communication loops with their backers which improve their products. I hope that in the future Helmgast becomes one of those companies and frankly the sooner the better.

              Petr Shestov on July 10
              "Helmgast AB Creator on May 29
              @Petr - The first scenario to come online is "Oakwood Heights", due in June."

              And nothing....

              Franco Martinengo on July 9
              As it seems there no exstimated delivery time!:(
              We will be lucky getting the material in late 2018, if ever!:(
              I am really starting to think it's all a scam, and we will never see our purchased books...

              João Mariano on June 26
              I'm on the camp of "it's better that it takes longer if the end product comes out better" but as the time passes I'm becoming worried due to the frequent unfulfilled deadlines promised by Helmgast followed by "radio silence".

              Also it's very odd for these kind of projects to not have any kind of WiP manuscript or a partial snapshot of the final product being made available in a timely manner to the backers in order to get some feedback or help regarding typos and whatnot. It paints an unassuring picture of the whole Helmgast team.

              Achille Mazzola on June 22
              Unfortunately checking out the projects i noticed how late this is, i hope i will not be a loss because it was one of my favorite games, update us on the production with real answers please

              Jacob Wallroth on June 22
              Jag håller med. Håll er till det ni lovar, så slipper ni en massa arga miner. Risken är ju att ni får problem att finansiera andra produkter med kickstarter i framtiden om ni gör så här.

              Det är helt ok för mig med förseningarna, men det verkar onödigt att reta upp folk med brutna löften.

              Manfred Lill on June 22
              Guys, totally not complaining about the game an it's development time here. I share your sentiments about rushed productions and potential lack of quality, if it''s the case. All I am saying here, that just leaving us with 'something''s wrong with the forums' and not commenting on it for another day (and thus not meeting amother self-imposed deadline again) is just not professional. Is it a small problem that will take another week? Is it something bigger that wI'll take longer to fix? Do they have a pro to take care (or is one of them one in his own right)? Or do they intend to dabble with the forum software until it is going to work by accident? It is the lack of information and the (to put it bluntly) ignorance and/or tactic of delaying without really saying something. Again, I agree in that I would rather wait and have a better product. But the handling of this kickstarter and the information politics are just plain unprofessional (my opinion).

              Stephen Mulligan on June 20
              I wish I was surprised but i'm really not. This is, to put it bluntly, an utter cluster fuck. NOTHING has been delivered on time. Really not presenting a good picture of yourselves as a professional company here Helmgast.

              @Gorgonieon...if it were a week or so after the end of the campaign I would agree. It's now 18 months. The delivery is six months late from the second date they gave us. There is no sign that there IS a game, What do we have to show for it? Alpha rules, a year after the campaign ended.

              What do we as backers have to show for 18 months of work???
              Absolutely nothing. You can get the Alpha rules without coughing up a penny. I backed pretty hard on this. I would like something to show for it. I would like my books.

              You working on it? (Somebody had to ask) I'm also wondering whether you invested some of your huge upfront capital into professional Web design and forum administration. A pro should find the problem in no time. Just asking...

              Stephen Mortimer on June 19
              @Jacob - While a forum is a nice thing to have without an actual game to discuss I think it's wasted effort.

              Phillip McGregor Superbacker on June 18
              @Stephen Mortimer
              Gotta agree, they've still not even completed editing of the Core rules and it's six months late ... and the last 'update', as a number of people have said, pretty much told us nothing substantive.

              It seems too many people behind RPG related Kickstarters either don't have the slightest clue about project management or believe that they have to lie about projected completion dates ...

              Personally, I back projects because I like them, NOT because of the completion date ... so, from my point of view, deliberately not telling the truth about the estimated date is simply NOT necessary, and really, really, really p****s me off ...

              The non-update 'updates' would tend to make me believe the latter is true, whereas more informative updates, even if they showed lack of competent project management (the other possibility) would tend to attract a deep sigh and a resigned 'par for the course' feeling ...

              Stephen Mortimer on June 16
              While I agree with the idea of delivering a good product rather than a rushed one I still feel that this update doesn't actually tell us anything, no dates on when anything will be available and to be honest no real content to the update at all. I am glad the project is moving forward but I still feel that more and more this is not an 'understandable delay' and more of a 'total cluster f**k with no real understanding of how long its going to take'. I think we'll be extremely lucky to have anything by Christmas 2017.

              Just another in a long line of RPG Kickstarters that have pretty much outright lied on their delivery dates.

              Jacob Wallroth on June 15
              I don't care so much about the delay, as long as Helmgast makes good use of the extra time to increase the value of my investment. Call it compound interest, if you like. Time is money.

              After all this time, any linguistic error or misprint in the final product is unacceptable. It needs to be perfect.

              Erik Hall on June 14
              @stephen We are definately in an agreement when it comes to the schedule, I am also very much frustrated. I'm in deep in this project, moneywise, and at the same time I like were the design is going. I don't like to speculate, but I feel something happened to the first editor and that delayed everything...

              Stephen Mulligan on June 13
              Actual update? Starting to feel like the jokes of Xmas 17 for delivery are on the optimistic side.

              I'm.sorry Helmgast but this is getting really frustrating. You've been promising a lot for this and have delivered absolutely nothing so far.

              Franco Martinengo on June 13
              Update 68 in a word: NOTHING!:(

              Stephen Mortimer on June 5
              I would really love to see an update that just tells us when this project is going to be delivered, I don't really care about the BETA Previews and stuff like that, I just want the finished book, done and delivered.

              Geir Pettersen Grønningsæter on June 1
              Need......update......soon........dying (not really).... here........

              Stephen Mulligan on May 8
              they over promise and under deliver, but to be honest, that seems par for the course for everyone other than the guys that ran conan.

              Walker Beh on May 8
              This kickstarter starts to take an unpleasant turn.
              Please stay reliable on your statements and communicate with your pledgers.

              Stephen Mortimer on May 8
              So still no update, no delivery date, nothing. Surprise, surprise, another RPG Kickstarter fails to deliver on time and then just stops talking to the backers.

              Stephen Mulligan on May 6
              Update??????

              Another delay? YET another delay.

              Coriolis has ran it's kickstarter, translated it's game and been distributed in the time that we've got a set of Alpha rules (promised during campaign, not delivered until a significant time afterwards)
              What stage is the game at? Is it written? Edited? Translated? In layout?

              Oliver Summers on May 6
              Update Please.

              I would like to know when we are getting our books?
              Why the Forums aren't up yet?
              Why is there another delay?

              Stephen Mortimer on May 4
              Ok, so it's past mid-week now, where is this fabled update? I would love to know when you are actually going to deliver this book.

              Oliver Summers on April 29
              Jesus I really hope people don't have to wait until Fall or even longer.

              Stephen Mulligan on April 28
              Wasn't the game almost written / translated during the campaign or am i not remembering correctly.

              Also @helmgast not all of us are on Facebook. It would be nice to have heard news of further delays here since we are the ones who backed the project.

              Jacob Wallroth on April 27
              @Oliver:

              Helmgast has changed its mind about the delivery date again.

              On the Facebook page, the company recently (20 April) stated that it is now "aiming for this fall". Bearing Helmgast's track record in mind, I think the Christmas of 2018 is the best we can hope for.

              Quote:

              "Hello!
              We are aiming for this fall. No exact date yet.
              /Petter"

              Oliver Summers on April 26
              Seeing Some Material is good.
              But it's almost May

              Still no Sign of the Forums either


              Oliver Summers on April 26
              End of spring was the new projected delivery date.
              But somehow I have my doubts we will be seeing our rewards by the end of spring.

              "then again, after the books are released, all that matters is the quality they are in, so..."

              Very very wrong. The tone used to communicate with your fan base, the open communication vs the radio silence, the honoring what you say or being shifty and obscuring what went on for delays, all these things will follow even after the books are in our hands. Especially on a platform like Kickstarter, where we've "paid in advance" to help fund the release of the product, the vibe you give as creators will very much affect future successes.

              The previously mentioned Onyx Path has lost (and looses more with each silent delay...Years overdue sometimes) huge amounts of purchasing gamers due to "we only tell you stuff when we deem it needed" mentality and openly hostile moderating of their forums and unfiltered comments to backers...They need a better PR presence for sure, but many gamers won't touch their products again after one or several Kickstarter projects. Amazing quality books, but they're loosing their backers.

              Another project just wrapping up here on Kickstarter, a lunch box and containers, lied to it's backers, missed every deadline for product and for news releases, refuses to answer emails from backers and deleted any negatives from their Facebook page.....But they've shipped the pledged items finally...I doubt since they've shipped they've kept much client base, not due to product quality but due to them as creators.

              No, I don't think that ALL that matters is the quality of the books.

              shawn hanson on March 23
              I'm not worried about delays here as long as you don't lapse into radio silence. Keep your backers informed and don't set dates you can't keep. Like others who've mentioned backing Onyx Path ks's.. radio silence and antagonistic comments to your backers aren't the way to go as shown by those "pros". (And there's been none of the latter shown here, that's not what I'm implying)

              Keep us well informed, once a month. Pick a specific timeframe for updates and keep with it. Then we're good.

              Maria-Cristina on March 21
              I really just want my book before I move abroad, this is so frustrating :(

              Joseph Begay on March 21
              What's the delay? Why no update?

              Stephen Mulligan on March 21
              Coriolis has ran, translated and been distributed to backers within the same time as we have been patiently waiting for updates.

              Erik Hall on March 17
              Wow, really not making it easy on yourselves Helmgast, regarding communication that is...

              Merazaander Superbacker on March 17
              Good news would be great indeed but even bad news is better than awkward silence... makes backers doubt the project

              Michael G Kinsley Jr on March 16
              I would also like to add my name to the growing list asking for an update. We were promised an update last week, and not the current week is coming to a close. Can we please get some information?

              Xavier Superbacker on March 16
              Any news?

              Carl Soderberg on March 14
              We are close to a year post campaign end and we still do not have the promised forums. The text, which was complete in Swedish at this time last year has not been translated. We have seen no excerpts from the final text and it is unknown when the pdf will be done. Once the pdf is done we will be looking at few more months before we have the print edition in hand.

              A year to translate and edit a text of 300-350 pages?

              For a company with decades of RPG experience, and who delayed their kickstarter for a few months (nov-->feb) to be sure everything was ready to go, I had higher expectations.

              Stephen Mortimer on February 6
              Ok so I am not super happy about yet another RPG Kickstarter project that I've backed being delayed, but at least we know something now. Printing in late spring means delivery might get started around September so we're looking at a around 10 months late. Not great.

              As for things that need to be available as soon as the fulfillment starts, that would be PDF versions of the Playbooks that can be given to players and any campaign support materials you have. Beyond that I've not found that Apocalypse World based games need much support, the specific design of the rules helps you to generate the story and naturally leads to creating of NPCs.

              The only other thing I can think of is to make sure that if you're going to release any additional archtypes for people to play that you do that as soon as possible after release, nothing is more frustrating than starting a new game and about half way through the campaign finding out that new archtypes are now available that fit what I wanted to play much better.

              Finally, what about the PDF copy? I would expect that to be available to us before you start printing.

              Phillip McGregor Superbacker on February 6
              So, aiming for late Spring printing ... June 2017 ... how much sooner will the final PDF be ready?

              An observation, based on experience backing 79 (soon to be 81) RPG Kickstarters ...

              * If printing is done in Europe, add 4-6 weeks *for* printing and then for the books to reach whomever is doing the distribution, another 1-2 weeks or so for them to actually do the shipping ... 6-8 weeks all up, so bringing us to mid to late AUGUST, possibly early SEPTEMBER.

              * If printing is being done in Asia, add +2-4 weeks to get to Europe, bringing us to mid to late SEPTEMBER.

              * If distribution is split between a European based operation for Europe and the RofW and a US based operation for North America, add from nothing (if printed in Asia) to 1-3 extra weeks (if printed in Europe) ... so, late SEPTEMBER to mid OCTOBER.

              And that's based on the actual experienced times from, as I said, 79 RPG Kickstarters I've backed.

              All assuming nothing untoward happens to delay any of those steps.

              Stephen Mulligan on February 4
              @Phillip they announced sometime ago that the book was delayed until spring 17.

              Doesn't change the fact that the actual quick start was considerably later than they promised.

              Now...where's the update?

              Erik Hall on January 30
              @helmgast As said in earlier update: " silence often feeds uncertainty". Of course you're deep in development, but the smallest of news would be appreciated by a lot of us :)




              Inte ens sunkiga pizzahak har så här mycket dåliga omdömen. Och för att du fick mig att scrolla igenom skiten och pasta den:

               

              Kommentera


                #82
                Min favorit är det där gnällot som tror att det tar mindre än en dag att hitta på, skriva ner, redigera, korrläsa, översätta, redigera översättningen, korrläsa översättningen och sedan layouta en Arketyp. Det är minst fem personer inblandade i den processen, och allt arbete måste ske sekventiellt. Om alla fem sitter på standby, utan något annat att göra i sina liv, kan det möjligen gå. Men inte när folk har dagjobb, familjer, etc. – och dessutom inte ens sitter i samma tidszon.

                Han har uppenbarligen ingen aning om hur någonting funkar – och behöver därför inte tas på allvar, eller ens lyssnas på.

                Obs! Jag talar inte för Helmgast – utan bara som frilansaren som sitter sist i produktionsledet.
                Last edited by Dante; 18 June 2018, 09.45.

                Kommentera


                  #83
                  Ursprungligen skrivet av Dante Visa inlägg
                  Min favorit är det där gnällot som tror att det tar mindre än en dag att hitta på, skriva ner, redigera, korrläsa, översätta, redigera översättningen, korrläsa översättningen och sedan layouta en Arketyp. Det är minst fem personer inblandade i den processen, och allt arbete måste ske sekventiellt. Om alla fem sitter på standby, utan något annat att göra i sina liv, kan det möjligen gå. Men inte när folk har dagjobb, familjer, etc. – och dessutom inte ens sitter i samma tidszon.

                  Han har uppenbarligen ingen aning om hur någonting funkar – och behöver därför inte tas på allvar, eller ens lyssnas på.

                  Obs! Jag talar inte för Helmgast – utan bara som frilansaren som sitter sist i produktionsledet.
                  Jag kan ändå hålla med Vimes om att de som faktiskt producerar grejerna borde veta bättre och inte lova eller ens estimera en leveranstid som ligger åratal före den faktiska leveransen.

                  Nu vet jag att den här diskussionen handlar om KDL, men det här är absolut inte ett problem som Helmgast är ensamma om. Det finns dussintals rätt stora projekt som har mer en ett år av förseningar på sin meritlista, och jag förstår att det gör backers rätt frustrerade. Hur många gånger har man hört kommentarer som ”när X väl kom hade jag glömt att jag backat det och redan tappat intresset och gått vidare till Y, så X ligger bara i hyllan hemma” eller ”för ett år sen sa de att X skulle komma om någon månad, så det lär väl komma nån gång nästa år höhö”

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                    #84
                    Grisodlarn: tl;dr

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                      #85
                      Trist med snoppbristen. Tristare med entitled fanboys som inte läste igenom villkoren innan de kastade sina pengar på projektet. Även om det såklart är trist om man hoppats det hade kommit lagom till julklappstider.

                      Den enda utgåva jag var intresserad av var iofs bibelutgåvan, så jag förlorar nog inget på det. FÖRMODLIGEN är censurerad body horror och censurerat sexvåld ett säkert sätt att göra den färdiga produkten mer intressant för mig dessutom. Mer utrymme för existensiell skräck, mindre bröst och penisar ivägen för det, är vad jag hoppas på av den reviderade utgåvan. Men jag förvånas av en sak i den här diskussionen: varför pratar vi som om vi VET hur den reviderade kommer se ut?

                      Ingen av oss utom möjligtvis Big Marco har väl en aning? Några av oss har läst kickstarterversionen. Ingen har läst den snoppfria. Ändå gnäller vi om hur mycket sämre eller mindre äkta den kommer bli? Vi har inte ens en lista på ändringar bortom ’färre snoppar och mindre bögsex’. Och trots att bögsex såklart är något av världens goda så behöver jag det inte explicit i mina skräckspel så att säga. För mig passar det bättre i romcoms och feelgoodfilmer.

                      Anyway det vore trevligt om vi kunde sluta gnälla bara för att vi är dåliga på riskbedömning och kanske istället ta in informationen som efterfrågades i tråden. Kult kommer i år. Och gör det inte det, då kommer det sen. Med eller utan kuk.

                      Kommentera


                        #86
                        Ursprungligen skrivet av Dante Visa inlägg
                        Min favorit är det där gnällot som tror att det tar mindre än en dag att hitta på, skriva ner, redigera, korrläsa, översätta, redigera översättningen, korrläsa översättningen och sedan layouta en Arketyp. Det är minst fem personer inblandade i den processen, och allt arbete måste ske sekventiellt. Om alla fem sitter på standby, utan något annat att göra i sina liv, kan det möjligen gå. Men inte när folk har dagjobb, familjer, etc. – och dessutom inte ens sitter i samma tidszon.

                        Han har uppenbarligen ingen aning om hur någonting funkar – och behöver därför inte tas på allvar, eller ens lyssnas på.

                        Obs! Jag talar inte för Helmgast – utan bara som frilansaren som sitter sist i produktionsledet.
                        Ja, jätteknasigt. Nästan lika off som Helmgasts egen prognos.

                        Kommentera


                          #87
                          Ursprungligen skrivet av Måns Visa inlägg
                          Grisodlarn: tl;dr
                          Måns: Din empiri är för tunn.

                          Grisoldarn: Här är jättemånga exempel som jag av någon anledning har ägnat natten åt att leta upp och kopiera från KS-sidan.

                          Måns: *trollface*

                          Kommentera


                            #88
                            Om jag ska vara fullständigt allvarlig (och lite långrandig) en stund:

                            Jag ser två ämnen här, där min åsikt skiljer sig mellan de två: förseningen och censuren.

                            Jag har inga problem med spräckta deadlines. Jag har skrivit och gett ut ett gäng rollspel för egen del, och vet att saker och ting sällan blir som det är tänkt. Saker kommer i vägen - sjukdom, man blir beroende av andra, saker tar längre tid än man tror, etc etc. Ibland måste stora delar helt göras om från grunden för att de blev bajs och man vill inte sätta sitt namn på bajs.

                            När det gäller kickstarters räknar jag alltid med spräckta deadlines. Jag räknar också med risken att det inte blir något överhuvudtaget. Jag pytsar inte in mer pengar än jag har råd att förlora.

                            Det jag kan bli lite putt på är när jag uppfattar att jag inte får någon löpande information. Det behöver inte vara jätteofta, men bara jag får en förståelse för varför det är försenat eller kanske inte ens blir av så är jag nöjd.

                            Till exempel lade jag pengar på en D&D-dokumentär som hamnade i juridiska bekymmer när en av de inblandade började stjäla material för att göra en helt egen dokumentär (såvitt jag förstod turerna). Jag är helt OK med det. Sånt händer. Jag hoppas att de kommer ur sitt juridiska limbo, men det gick inte att förutse och blir det ingen dokumentär så är jag besviken men inte arg. Jag ville ha dokumentären, men var medveten om att det alltid finns risker.

                            Som kontrast lade jag också en hel del pengar på en uppsättning props till Masks of Nyarlathotep. Där har jag väldigt lite koll på vad som faktiskt händer. Snubben som höll i projektet verkar ha tagit sig vatten LÅNGT över huvudet, men har varit ganska dålig på att kommunicera det och på att hantera situationen taktiskt. Han verkar ha stoppat huvudet i sanden och bara försökt ducka från alltihop. Vilket jag kan förstå, men utan öppen och rak kommunikation, utan ett "sorry guys, det blev inte som jag ville, projektet misslyckades helt, allt är kaos" så är jag ärligt talat rätt irriterad på situationen.

                            Var hamnar Helmgast där? Tja, de har haft löpande kommunikation, där de gett statusrapporter och meddelat varje förändring. Jag har fått regelbundna mail från dem som sammanfattat svårigheterna och de val de tvingats göra. Jag är helt OK med det.


                            Däremot är jag väldigt, väldigt negativ till hela grejen med att ha saker i en kickstarter som är exklusiva för just kickstartern. Framför allt när det handlar om spelmaterial. Äventyr som bara kan fås som addons i en kickstarter är exempel på sånt jag verkligen, verkligen ogillar. Är det inte spelmaterial utan någon form av "småbonusar" eller relativt poänglösa fysiska grejer (som tärningsgrejen till Symbaroums monsterkodex) eller variationer som skulle kosta en massa extra pengar att trycka fler ex av (t.ex. inbunden version av en bok som annars ges ut som softcover, eller extra lyxig läderinbindning) så är jag helt klart mer OK med det, men exklusivt material som inte ens går att köpa som PDF... det gör mig rätt irriterad. Det känns cyniskt och småaktigt; jag förstår att det ger folk incitament att backa projektet men det gör att man i princip köper sig de incitamenten i utbyte mot att solka sitt goda namn en smula. Det gör att backers lägger mer pengar än de egentligen tänkt, kanske mer än de egentligen har råd med.

                            Det här fallet, med den censurerade versionen, blir ett gränsfall. Det presenterades aldrig som något kickstarterexklusivt att få den ocensurerade utgåvan. Därför förstår jag till viss del frustrationen hos de som nu först i efterhand informeras om att de skulle ha backat för att få den ocensurerade versionen. Och jag hoppas verkligen att Helmgast tar beslutet att sälja den ocensurerade PDF:en; jag har ingen insikt i företaget och de avtal de är bundna av, men hoppas att de har möjlighet till det. Jag räknar med att om de INTE säljer den ocensurerade PDF:en så förstår de att det kommer att leda till att den sprids piratvägen istället. Jag kommer inte att bidra till det själv, men... you know. Internet.

                            (Jag har inte kollat igenom kickstarter-uppdateringarna, men har det stått något om de förbeställningar man redan nu kan göra i deras butik? Om man förbeställer här, får man censurerad eller ocensurerad?)

                            Jag ser också fram emot att se en redogörelse för exakt vad som ändras. Jag förstår att Helmgast kanske själva inte vet vad som kommer att ändras riktigt ännu, men hoppas på löpande kommunikation även om det.

                            För egen del är jag däremot inte så brydd. Jag har ju den ocensurerade, men som jag skrivit tidigare så är det inte så viktigt för mig. Jag gillar Kult för det intellektuella innehållet ihop med Hellraiser-splattet, men ärligt talat behövs inte speciellt många kukar eller vad det nu kan handla om för att jag ska anse att spelet uppnått tillräckligt hög hellraisernivå...

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                              #89
                              Ursprungligen skrivet av Xhakhal Visa inlägg
                              Trist med snoppbristen. Tristare med entitled fanboys som inte läste igenom villkoren innan de kastade sina pengar på projektet. Även om det såklart är trist om man hoppats det hade kommit lagom till julklappstider.

                              Den enda utgåva jag var intresserad av var iofs bibelutgåvan, så jag förlorar nog inget på det. FÖRMODLIGEN är censurerad body horror och censurerat sexvåld ett säkert sätt att göra den färdiga produkten mer intressant för mig dessutom. Mer utrymme för existensiell skräck, mindre bröst och penisar ivägen för det, är vad jag hoppas på av den reviderade utgåvan. Men jag förvånas av en sak i den här diskussionen: varför pratar vi som om vi VET hur den reviderade kommer se ut?

                              Ingen av oss utom möjligtvis Big Marco har väl en aning? Några av oss har läst kickstarterversionen. Ingen har läst den snoppfria. Ändå gnäller vi om hur mycket sämre eller mindre äkta den kommer bli? Vi har inte ens en lista på ändringar bortom ’färre snoppar och mindre bögsex’. Och trots att bögsex såklart är något av världens goda så behöver jag det inte explicit i mina skräckspel så att säga. För mig passar det bättre i romcoms och feelgoodfilmer.

                              Anyway det vore trevligt om vi kunde sluta gnälla bara för att vi är dåliga på riskbedömning och kanske istället ta in informationen som efterfrågades i tråden. Kult kommer i år. Och gör det inte det, då kommer det sen. Med eller utan kuk.
                              Folk gnäller nog snarare över att Helmgast är dåliga på riskbedömning. Liten men viktig skillnad.

                              Also, vad är grejen med att bli så oerhört provocerad över missnöjda backers som klagar över ständigt framskjutna deadlines? Jag tror att det är en jäkla tur att det finns folk som saknar er misstiktade elistim och faktiskt vädrar missnöje, annars skulle inte crowdfunding fungera över huvud taget.

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                                #90
                                Vimes, det är en viktig skillnad. Önskar den beskrev verkligheten! Liksom jag tycker det vore trevligt om folk uttryckte missnöje med framskjutet releasedatum istället för demonstrerade bristande läsförståelse och grepp om situationen på samma sätt som många i citaten ovan. Tråkigt, imho.

                                Synd också som krank säger att den exklusiva snoppversionen inte var tydligt exklusiv från början, men det är ju inte mycket att göra åt.

                                Fast. Ska jag vara helt ärlig. Så gillar jag att se vuxna män i praktiken ropa ilsket efter mer kuk.

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